Samuel
@samuel.fm
accidentally remembered some plot points from Rise of Skywalker and now I’m legit slightly angry
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Thomas Dickerson
I’ll be honest: of all the things that bug me about that movie, this is close to the bottom of the list. Not that it’s not bad, but everything else is so much worse
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feral cross racer
yeah that's fair. the jj cliche setups -> rian destroys the cliches -> jj spends 3rd movie retconning the 2nd results in one of the worst movies i can remember. i don't think jj abrams is a great director, but the trilogy as a whole would be a lot more tolerable if he did it all
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Thomas Dickerson
Or if Colin Trevorrow did the third as planned. Or if they had put Filoni in a Feige/Marvel type role in charge of overall plot and continuity for the whole trilogy.
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Thanks, I Hate It
It hit me the other day after reading a middling review of The Alcolyte, if Johnson had directed Episode IX, we would have gotten follow-through on Broom Kid (at least, the idea that the Force belongs to everyone, if not that actual kid), and that would have set up countless interesting stories. 1/2
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Thanks, I Hate It
Those stories would have actually kept the larger story going forward, instead of just cannibalizing the series' past over and over. You could do small TV-scale stories about post-Rey force users, that don't have galactic consequences, and then at some point, do another movie with a big story. 2/2
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Thomas Dickerson
I mean the thing about broom kid is we don't really need a specific follow-up because that's the historical norm of the Jedi order. 10,000 Jedi Knights, virtually every single one recruited from random families who just happened to have force sensitive kids.
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Thanks, I Hate It
Well, that's the beauty of that moment. It's Johnson reminding us that "hey, this entire story doesn't have to just be about one family in the entire wide galaxy," and then JJ comes back with "no, fuck you, it absolutely does."
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Randy Pneuman
I love his other stuff, so I'd agree with you except that second movie is bad on its own. He tried to throw out all of what makes Star Wars good, and then he had nothing to replace it with.
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🟠🟤 Reese's Pieces
With all due respect, it's baffling to me to see an opinion like this when LAST JEDI was the only episode of the Sequel Trilogy that felt like old STAR WARS to me.
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Randy Pneuman
Not sure why it felt like old Star Wars to you. It's very explicit about throwing everything that came before it away. It mocks the very idea of plucky individuals taking on the empire like David and Goliath. That's what Star Wars is about!
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Thomas Dickerson
you know who says "let the past die" in TLJ? THE FUCKING FASCIST VILLAIN WHO REY REJECTS Yoda helps Rey smuggle the sacred Jedi texts out on the Falcon.
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🟠🟤 Reese's Pieces
It might be more accurate to say that LAST JEDI felt to me like the natural next step in evolution (in terms of themes, story, filmmaking, pacing, etc.) after the Original Trilogy. The movie literally ended with a boy picking up a broom to use as a weapon against his enslavers.
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Randy Pneuman
... after spending the entire movie shitting on what fans like about Star Wars. I'm glad you liked it, I guess. But I don't see it as a natural progression of the spirit of the originals when it's so openly disdainful of same.
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Adam McMahon
What upsets me most of all is people thinking it’s a good movie. I can never get past the opening scene
Nicholas Bauer PhD
Trevorrow was also a bad choice, though he had some interesting and different ideas that could have gone somewhere. JJ should have been kept away at all costs. He just doesn't have any respect for trying to keep a universe consistent, and loves MacGuffins way too much.
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Bad Reviewer
I just realized that I can remember more things (shots, plot points, names) from Jurassic World, a mediocre movie I saw once, than Rise of Skywalker, which I saw twice.
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Tom
The trilogy as a whole would be better if its main “villain” weren’t an angsty teen. Not making a second trilogy would’ve been better than what we got. (The Timothy Zahn books were *right* *there*, and could have been easily adapted for a better trilogy.)
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Marie 🇨🇦⚜️
a "villain" whose backstory and motivations were retconned in a comic between movies, AND THEN that retcon impacted his characterization in the last movie... like they somehow expected everybody watching the third movie to know he hadn't actually killed Luke's students and got framed for it 🤦‍♀️
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Marie 🇨🇦⚜️
Yeah it was Snokes who killed them from afar or something… and then instead of staying and explaining to Luke, he cut and ran. His redemption arc might have been a tad bit more efficient in the movies if they’d told us that on screen, but what do I know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Marie 🇨🇦⚜️
Who knows at this point! On the page for Snokes it says Ben Solo only «killed a few and ran away with the rest», which means that the origin of the knight of Ren, as explained in the comic, is still the same. So is the comic still canon? Same comic hints strongly that the killing was Snoke’s doing…
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Tom
However old Driver was, Kylo Ren behaved like a 16 year old.
Chungus Khan
Fwiw Empire had a similar relationship with ANH but Jedi still stuck the landing instead of undoing the whole thing so in the end Empire's remembered as the best of the three
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feral cross racer
that's a really interesting point - i've never NOT known the original trilogy as a whole, so the shock twist w/ vader lands really well
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feral cross racer
TFA is basically just a retelling of ANH with the next generation, thus the whole rey setup with "who are her parents" leading to some inevitable skywalker connection bullshit felt super trite. TLJ took that & said fuck that, let there be new jedi blood without everyone being related
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feral cross racer
this, too, absolutely butchers what was a pretty solid Legends storyline about palpatine clones that could have been just straight up adapted as a trilogy!
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Chungus Khan
Oh totally. And not to put on my Campbell hat but the arc of the trilogy as a whole ends up paralleling human moral development really well, which is probably why the whole thing worked so well.
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Chungus Khan
At the same RJ was definitely going for the same moral tilt of Empire tho- the world is more complicated than good and evil, the good guys don't always win, people are flawed and make mistakes, the worst person you know has a point about attachments, all that jazz.
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Chungus Khan
The biggest flip on its head was making the signalled Lando equivalent an actual scumbag (who also made a good point. Tragic!)
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Chungus Khan
Black and white received morality in childhood=> discovering complexity, nuance, fallibility in pre/adolescence=> struggling to internalize all that and synthesize your own moral system in adulthood
cyberrb25
I mean, originally the three movies would be made each by one director. Iirc, it had to be Colin Trevorrow who would do the last one. It's not like JJ was looking to make a trilogy as if it was his child and then evil Rian effed it up...
Pita Enigma
It is so terrible that it's funny. The movie is full of terrible storytelling problems but this is downright criminal.
Samuel
just make sure to have played a limited-time Fortnite event from 5 years ago first, so you have the full context
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Micah
look on the one hand it would be incredible content on the other hand I actually like you and I'm not sure I could seriously do that to a friend
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Micah
the other piece is, honestly, I don’t think you are attached enough to Star Wars as a franchise for you it will just be another very bad movie, and you’ve seen a lot of those you have to be a hardcore fan to appreciate the depths of its horror
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cassandra (herald of tempestra)
Like… i know the prequels are getting a lot more love and it’s not like Lucas was wrong about the rise of fascism… But Episode 1 is a bad movie… Episode 2 is a bad movie… Episode 3 is a bad movie… And Episode 9 makes all of them look like Kurosawa
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Richard M (Stuffing Sommelier)
I'm with Micah on this one. I may make jokes about your defense contractor leanings. But I don't want to subject you to that horror. There is a limit. It's not even so bad it's funny, it's just bad.
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johnny long-torso
My internet friend was going to watch Star Wars for the first time and asked me what order, i said 4-5-1-2-3-6 After they asked about the new trilogy i just said "don't" (they didn't listen but i tried)
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molly.
nobody should be forced to watch star wars if they don't want to. if you're at risk of being shown a star war, call 1(800) GET-HELP today. if you are in recovery, call 1(800) GLUP-SHITTO for free resources
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zoot car
the movie made me upset that they DIDN'T kill Chewbacca which isn't an emotional state I should be anywhere near
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Smellbringer
If it makes you feel better, they did kill Chewbacca off in the old Legends continuity. By chucking a fucking moon at him.
Dennis Fangg
The Chewie fakeout was my first hint it was going to be an epic disappointment. Denial got me through the Palpatine return and hyperskipping the first time around.
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Samuel
god I forgot about Chewie thing that was just bizarre. weird ass setup but they then resolve all the tension immediately for no reason, even though the main characters don’t find out until later??
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Hugin
The thing about Hyperskipping isn't the lore issues, they don't matter. But watch TFA. JJAbrams did an INCREDIBLE fighter sequence through the downed Star Destroyer. How did he get so much worse at it for TROS?
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Cris (without an H)
What's especially wild is their whole "beloved character might be dead [barely no time passes] NOT REALLY!" could apply to *two* characters in the same movie
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CoastersPaul
I do think C-3PO over-dramatizing his whole moment does at least actually fit his character, and in a better movie that wasn't constantly doing this or undercutting things it wouldn't be a sticking point for anybody.
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Julian
Instead of the Chewie fakeout, they could have given us a scene with Kylo Ren and the person who probably did 90% of the job of raising him. Adam Driver totally has the chops to sell that scene, even if half the dialogue is disappointed howls.
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Matthew Triponey
That smash cut from Ghost Luke saying, "You already have everything you need," directly to "Kylo Ren accidentally left the Magical Object of Destiny in his crashed ship" is an all-time great unintentional comedy edit.
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Iron Hand Rose 🌹
ive never ever encountered a piece of fiction so hostile to its own immediate predecessor. a cinematic "IGNORE PREVIOUS POST THAT GUY SUCKS DICK"
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Pita Enigma
I love it. The sequel trilogy is an argument. I wish they'd gone on forever, Rian johnson and JJ Abrams shitting on each other's work movie after movie. Abrams should make the next Knives Out movie
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Shaenon K. Garrity
The sequels are basically two nerds fighting over which of their fanfics gets to be canon and only one of them even writes decent fanfic
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André
Kinda hope the new Rey movie brings in Finn and goes new places (story & character wise). They were fun characters. I like RoS but it was kind of an odd movie due to Fisher's death and the quick production changes.
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Ryusui
the reason i have not watched The Last Jedi a second time is because some kind of alchemy happened there in that theater and i'm afraid that i would not recapture that on a rewatch ...i have not watched EpIX and i intend to never watch it
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André
Hope it does well enough for a sequel and that the actors all have better experiences fandom wise this time around.
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Samu
*rattling the bars of my cage* PALPATINE! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!
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El Gato Astronomico
It's wild, if you had told me that there was going to be a main line Star Wars movie that I wouldn't bother seeing when I was a kid I wouldn't have believed it
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Busto Mundo
The first time I heard Jay Bauman of Red Letter Media describe it as "Fuck it! Nothing matters!", I thought that should have been the only thing the opening scrawl said
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Dom
Every time I remember the dagger scene. So you're saying in 30 years, there has been no earth moment and no decaying of the old death star structure and how did she know where to stand!!! Argh 🙈
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NutMeg
"There is a secret planet that can only be reached with this special guiding beacon..." ...unless someone has stolen your ship with the beacon in it, in which case you can still get there without it just fine.
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Josh Libbed Out and Relieved
bro, we’ve been hiding a million star destroyers fully crewed with the same laser as the death star around our secret base for 30 years pretending we lost while we tested the first order…
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Michael Kohler
I spent half the movie thinking "that isn't how anything works." Like.... Not only did it break SW canon over and over (including Poe's backstory from the comics) but it flies in the face of... everything. An aggressively stupid film.
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Michael Kohler
I'm of the opinion that the main flaws of TLJ were ones that were inevitable due to the mess JJ left in TFA. Episode VII was fun, but ridiculously terrible world building. The entire Republic fleet was on one world? Galaxy wide? What the fuck? Does JJ know what a galaxy is?
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Zalmute
Do you seriously want an answer, or are you just saying in a different way that you believe the prior movie was worse in not so many words?
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James Marsh
Basically to say the galaxy was given hope by Luke's sacrifice, he gained legendary status and inspired future generations.
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PAL
literally, the last scene is a group of children playing with Star Wars toys.
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kanlam
I thankfully barely remember it and am happy with my headcanon about the whole trilogy
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Treemoth
remember when Rey killed Chewbacca and they walked that back not even five minutes later? or when C-3PO lost his memories, and they walked that back immediately too? or when Kylo apprenticed to the emperor then they walked that back? or when Rey died and they walked it back?
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Busto Mundo
If not outright worse it comes damn close to being Attack of the Clones bad. Not really a spoiler. At least we don't have to see little Grogu jump flipping with a mini lightsaber
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Dagoth Urlon Musk
"You're a Palpatine, Rey" is a worse line than "Somehow, Palpatine returned," but Oscar Isaac provided his own reaction GIF for that one so it gets all the "glory."