Samuel
@samuel.fm
very funny how one of the most impactful events in world history (crucifixion of Jesus) Pontius Pilate probably didn’t think about it for more than 5 minutes. It probably wasn’t even the biggest thing he had going on that day
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öx45tallboy
That's because there were tons of cult leader "Messiah" figures. "Life of Brian" was actually rather historically accurate in that respect.
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US Asunder
Luke's account of Pilate suggests he actually struggled with the legality of it, finding Jesus wasn't guilty of civil crimes under Roman Law. Even his wife asked him not to. But Pharisees claimed Jesus violated their Religious Law, and wanted him dead for that crime. Pilate was protecting his job.
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DK, back to non-spookiness cat herding
He lost his job because of all the murdering he did. There was no need for him to find excuses, and claiming that Jews had some sway on what he or the Roman empire that controlled the whole area is ridiculous. It's pretty much the old antisemitic idea that Jews control the government.
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Samuel
I mean he was only in charge because Herod drew up an absolute all-time stinker of a succession plan. They probably could've been much more self-governing if he wasn't a paranoid madman - and in fact, Judea got a king again about a decade later with Agrippa
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Samuel
the historicity of there being someone called Jesus in 1st century Judea is pretty well settled
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ideogenetic
Uhhmm…it’s only settled literature. People started believing they are characters in the most illogical story ever told.
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Samuel
No, most secular historians are pretty sure he was a real guy. There was a lot of similar figures from that era, it just so happened that his following survived and outlived him
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ideogenetic
Not true. And those who do are pumping their niche (looking at you Ehrman) The literary trick of the Bible is a series of null pointers thus: ∅->"God"->"YHWH"->"Christ"->"Jesus"->Empty Tomb->null. Those last writers were loudly trolling the ancient readers for having not solved the puzzle.
JM
Sure, like there are lots of Bobs around today. But none of them are a god from a virgin birth.
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Samuel
sure but if i make up some shit about a guy I know called Bob that doesn’t mean that Bob didn’t exist. It just means Bob didn’t do those things
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JM
Yeah, there were and still are guys called Jesus or Bob. No proof one of them is a God.
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JM
Some guy named Jesus existed. So what. The Bible is bullshit. Not going to continue this meaningless conversation.
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Samuel
That’s all I’m claiming. No need to be mad, you were the one who came in here claiming he wasn’t real
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Samuel
I’m also an atheist to be clear!! But getting the historical facts wrong on purpose is stupid and not necessary
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JM
Still saying, there's no proof. You can bring up all kinds of other "writings". No actual proof. A huge con.
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JM
Still would need proof of the "actual" Bob that you're trying to promote.
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Samuel
Tacitus? Josephus? There’s a fair number of non-Christian sources and other evidence
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Samuel
There are lots of Messianic claimants from that era - what that basically meant back then was they claimed they’d be the one to restore Judean independence. I think it’s pretty likely that the guy the bible was talking about was probably real, given that Tacitus mentions him as a Messianic claimant
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JM
The Bible is an ever-evolving book full of fiction, superstition, contradiction, and lies.
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Samuel
I’m literally talking about non-biblical sources, unless you think Tacitus wrote the bible
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JM
Lots of people wrote the Bible. Mostly to control the weak gullible fearful people.
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seraph
Most religious historians, secular ones included, agree on the historicity of Jesus. His divinity? Not so much, but trying to dispute his existence is pointless.
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Chris Córdoba
What are you talking about? Cesar had 2 million dead on Galia as proof... Jesus had a line by a hebrew cronicle decades later (and he is only citing about a nazarean profet who had a cousin named john)
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Chris Córdoba
Ad hominem aside... We have little historic proof of Jesus. Julius Cesar we still have the book he wrote on the Gallic campaign, archeological sites on his battles, people defaming him, people praising him and a nephew that became emperor using the inheritance he left behind...
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GamemodeCat
And it's not an ad hominem to point out poor communication practices. If I said you were dumb or uneducated because of how you wrote, that would be a personal attack, but I simply directed you towards resources that would help you convey your viewpoint legibly.
GamemodeCat
Jesus Christ: We have 4 eye witness accounts of his life, we have many letters about him to the churches about him, we know where he was buried, we might have found his actual tomb, people defaming him, people praising him, and a church that traces their leadership back to his original followers.
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Chris Córdoba
Julius cesar had thousand of eye witness speaking about him and he wrote 5 books of his campaigns. Plus his speeches. You had a million slaves coming to Rome because of Cesar victories and that is recorded in Rome bureaucracy.
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Chris Córdoba
You had the destruction of the druidic order and the direct control of gália tô Roma. The corrosion of influence of the Senate. The riches of Cesar will to the population and the inflation crisis that came. He was not some dude with only a paragraph in some very specific book.
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Chris Córdoba
The four eyewitness were the apostles who tell his tale ( the are suspect to speak) The only related text about him in 70 years were flavius Josephus only citing that there was a guy Jesus brother of James, Born in Nazareth and some people claim he was christ. And that text had issues of meddling.
Samuel
books contain useful information sometimes. I recommend reading them from time to time 👍
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JM
I read all the time. Just not bullshit religious drivel.
JM
History is usually written by the powerful or winners of wars.
Ignatz
There are more "scientists" who don't believe in evolution than "historians" who don't believe Jesus existed. Quotes intentional in both cases.
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JM
Just because there are people named Jesus doesn't make them gods.
Stacey D
Too bad it happened at all. Followers of Christ have created more bloodshed, more anguish for indigenous people all over the world and more trauma for the world’s children than Jesus could have possibly imagined. He didn’t die for our sins. He created more reasons to commit them.
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Samuel
unfortunately the impact of Christianity throughout history is much larger than its direct believers. European colonialism with its missionaries, for one…
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alodar.bsky.social
Folks have used religion as an excuse to steal land long before christians did. Governments send armies to steal land or resources. Religion is just a convenient justification for mass murder of non-believers.
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beatricetibbs777.bsky.social
In PPs day, Jesus and his small group of followers weren’t that big of a deal. What’s odd is how Christians celebrate the execution of a man who was against the death penalty.
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seraph
They celebrate the part where he comes back. If he had simply stayed dead nobody would bother.
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beatricetibbs777.bsky.social
Why? I think that is a very important part of the Jesus story. Otherwise he was a simple Jewish faith healer from Palestine with a message of love and not a messiah.
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Samuel
probably would’ve caused political turmoil in the Sanhedrin I can tell you that much!
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Michel Bestaat
It was a setup. Judas was Jesus' impresario. Together they pulled off the biggest show on earth. Judas convinced Jesus' that he could not die at the cross.
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binki666.bsky.social
I have a theory that the name jesus was so common that there is a lot of diffenent guys named jesus in the Bible, kinda like if u wrote a bible of Bob
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Neo
actually he moved against his own inclinations as well as his wife's serious warning
debf56.bsky.social
He reminds me of someone else who gladly shifts the blame and responsibility onto other people, then literally washes his hands of it.
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